That Time I got Reincarnated as a Slime
| I am not liking this anime for me in terms of entertaining and badass this main character is nothing compare to Ainz for me. Childish,not taking anything really seriously,overpower and typical isekai personality traits. Really not impress with this anime and main characters Hoping for others main supporting character being more entertaining to watch What I like the setting and premise But I have to say I am not impress with this anime. |
Newtwu said: Grey-Zone said: And who exactly decides whether or not the plot is "good"? What are the standards for that? Some big-name in the review industry? Popular opinion? Some kind of "general evaluation guidelines" written by a commitee of 100 reviewers? You own interpretation of "common sense"? Keep in mind that different people put different weights on different aspects as well. There are people who don't give a single damn about the story as long as the characters are good and vice versa. Alright, let me give you an insight on the basics of story-telling and what makes for a good plot. Right, so you start off with an introduction. The next part is the escalation of events (building of tension) followed by the climax. After that is the return, and finally followed by the resolution. Each being extremely important in its own way. You'll see this in every arc and every movie. A good plot depends on how well the author implements these into the medium they are writing/making. People might have different weights on different aspects but good character development still stems from good plot. The characters are developed through the trials they encounter. It's either you have good plot and character development, good plot and bad characters, or bad plot and bad characters. Also it's good not to fuck up a character in the introduction by making them a Mary Sue cause that has implications on the creation of tension and meaningful character development. You are always mentioning how bad Mary Sues/Gary Stues are, but you yourself seem to easily "forgive" such an aspect as long as there is a "little twist" to it. Death Note is basically about two Gary Stues facing off. So just because the antagonist is elevated to the same status, the whole issue of having Gary Stues as a "disqualifying point" suddenly is all water under the bridge... In that regard I cannot take your reasoning all too seriously. Escpacially since Light and L in Death Note don't really develop much and the bit they do is essentially very simplistic. The entire show is carried by the battle of wits aspect and the interactions between Light and L who are already "finished, perfect" characters. That's also why people didn't like the 2nd part after L is gone. The story in itself is also not very complex, as it's the cliché genius villain vs genius detective kind of thing. That makes me wonder why you are willing to handwave the Gary Stu aspect in Death Note so easily, but insist on it being oh so important for Slime? |
Grey-ZoneOct 26, 2018 4:14 AM
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Newtwu said: Grey-Zone said: You are always mentioning how bad Mary Sues/Gary Stues are, but you yourself seem to easily "forgive" such an aspect as long as there is a "little twist" to it. Death Note is basically about two Gary Stues facing off. So just because the antagonist is elevated to the same status, the whole issue of having Gary Stues as a "disqualifying point" suddenly is all water under the bridge... In that regard I cannot take your reasoning all too seriously. Escpacially since Light and L in Death Note don't really develop much and the bit they do is essentially very simplistic. The entire show is carried by the battle of wits aspect and the interactions between Light and L who are already "finished, perfect" characters. That's also why people didn't like the 2nd part after L is gone. The story in itself is also not very complex, as it's the cliché genius villain vs genius detective kind of thing. That makes me wonder why you are willing to handwave the Gary Stu aspect in Death Note so easily, but insist on it being oh so important for Slime? Because Light isn't a Gary Stu? He has glaring flaws that makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about. These flaws include his ideology of a new world, his overwhelming confidence, his complete underestimation of his enemies and also his complete lack of empathy and his greed. And these flaws clearly prove to be the things that become his downfall. These flaws actually have an affect on the plot. Is L a Garu Stu? Also no. While he is basically a god on a logical level, his main weakness was him trusting Light and Light being his best friend. Also he's not the main protagonist. So being a Gary Stu is about personality/character flaws rather than... well... "convenient luck"? So the whole convenient "coincidental" Misora Naomi encounter for Light or L unknowingly preventing his own death by Rem because his investigation just happens to have a breakthrough at the right timing and similar "luck" that seems exclusive to the super geniuses of this series like Light, L, Near and Mellow doesn't make them Gary Stu? Got it. Don't walk this back now! You have said it yourself! Since it's all about the personality of the characters, I can easily present you two glaring flaws of Rimuru to prove that he is not a Gary Stu! 1. He is ignorant and doesn't take enough adventage of his Great Sage skill to remedy it, unless a situation directly calls for it. It causes him to be in a very dangerous situation where he is helpless for three days and has to entirely rely on others to keep in safe. There is no indication that the incident itself made him self-reflect on it though, as rather than that he blamed Great Sage for not telling him about that beforehand. It doesn't appear to get fixed anytime soon. 2. He is too naive and trusting towards humans and forces this belief on his followers just because he used to be a human himself and is used to living in a "peaceful" era and the show even emphasized this quite a bit by making "it sure is peaceful" literally the very first words he says in the entire series. At some point this might bite him in the back. Infact it already did, with the adventurers attacking him and Gobta just for being monsters. Even with that he didn't reflect on whether or not his choice was problematic, but rather told Gobta to "close his ears and eyes" to not reveal himself as a hypocrite, acting all politician-like. So there you have it. Two very obvious flaws in Rimuru that, according to your own standards, disqualify him from being a "Gary Stu". |
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Newtwu said: Grey-Zone said: So being a Gary Stu is about personality/character flaws rather than... well... "convenient luck"? So the whole convenient "coincidental" Misora Naomi encounter for Light or L unknowingly preventing his own death by Rem because his investigation just happens to have a breakthrough at the right timing and similar "luck" that seems exclusive to the super geniuses of this series like Light, L, Near and Mellow doesn't make them Gary Stu? Got it. Don't walk this back now! You have said it yourself! Since it's all about the personality of the characters, I can easily present you two glaring flaws of Rimuru to prove that he is not a Gary Stu! 1. He is ignorant and doesn't take enough adventage of his Great Sage skill to remedy it, unless a situation directly calls for it. It causes him to be in a very dangerous situation where he is helpless for three days and has to entirely rely on others to keep in safe. There is no indication that the incident itself made him self-reflect on it though, as rather than that he blamed Great Sage for not telling him about that beforehand. It doesn't appear to get fixed anytime soon. 2. He is too naive and trusting towards humans and forces this belief on his followers just because he used to be a human himself and is used to living in a "peaceful" era and the show even emphasized this quite a bit by making "it sure is peaceful" literally the very first words he says in the entire series. At some point this might bite him in the back. Infact it already did, with the adventurers attacking him and Gobta just for being monsters. Even with that he didn't reflect on whether or not his choice was problematic, but rather told Gobta to "close his ears and eyes" to not reveal himself as a hypocrite, acting all politician-like. So there you have it. Two very obvious flaws in Rimuru that, according to your own standards, disqualify him from being a "Gary Stu". The Misora Noami encounter was not simply coincidental. She tried to investigate how her husband died and deduced that Kira was on the bus on the day of the bus-jacking. And like I said, L isn't a Gary Stu because for one he's not completely overpowered and untouchable by Light, he's got flaws that enable his downfall and he's not the main protagonist. L prevented his own death because he detained Misa and was torturing her and if Rem killed him, that would be suspicious and disastrous for Misa. Convenience is when things happen because it's for the sake of the plot. E.g Kirito being able to will himself to not die, Rimuru for spawning in a cave full of magicules and herbs that are used to make potions with the ability to absorb everything and acquire it's properties and abilities, etc. So regarding your so-called glaring flaws. Do they contribute as an obstacle for him story-wise? With your first point, it's like saying one of Ichigo's main flaw or Naruto's main flaw is their plentiful amount of Reiatsu and Chakra. If they use it all then they can't do anything. Seriously, what sort of argument is that? With your second point about him wanting to be all about peace. I mean, again, it's not really been an obstacle for him is it? It's not like him always wanting things to be peaceful makes him refuse to fight the enemy. He literally kills the leader of the Direwovles cause they didn't surrender. The scene with the Thug adventurers attacking him was just to show off how strong he was and nothing else. Kinda reminds me of that episode in SAO where Kirito doesn't do anything and can't get killed because he's too high level. Does your so-called fatal flaw prevent him from acting on his goals or even pose a problem for him? No. Hence it is not a fatal flaw. A Mary Sue is about being the ideal character with no problem they can't solve. Their existence leads to the world, plot and characters to revolve around them. A character that breaks suspension of disbelief. You seem to deliberately ignore the fact that Light literally ran into Misora Naomi at the one EXACT moment where he can hear her saying something that relates her to the Kira case. Had he come half a minute earlier or later he wouldn't have noticed at all. In comparison, Aizawa went past the both of them right when they were talking about the Kira case and it just so happened to start snowing making him lift up a parasol which prevented him from recognising Light. But sure "not convenient at all". Light and L are both Gary Stues, but their respective Gary Stu-ness negates each other, but if it's anyone without that characteristic, they are just "fodder". Light encounter with Misora Naomi only happened because of pure luck. L unknowingly saved himself from being killed by Rem by making his death recognised as "prolonging Misa's lifespan", which it wasn't up until then. Mellow had a Shinigami helper that conveniently appears right after Light's group gave him the Death Note as ransom, otherwise his story arc would have ended much earlier and we wouldn't get to see Light's father's dramatic end (= plot convenience). Near got the final win because two other Gary Stues made a noble sacrifice that enabled him to finally pierce through Light's protagonist plot armor, alongside a little bit of help from Mikami's plot-induced stupidity, even though the single smart thing Near ever really did by himself was throwing money from a helicopter. I could continue this forever. As for Rimuru, him "spawning" where he did is akin to being born in a certain way. Might as well critisize any protagonist ever to be born as either a muscle head (shounen protagonist) or super intelligent (Light or Lelouch) or with different circumstances. It's pretty much part of the setting, or at least a dramatic change that often occurs in the very beginning of the story. Such ciriticism is non-sense. On top of that Rimuru seemed to have a relatively strong soul, considering Veldora said that normal souls wouldn't be able to cross worlds by themselves, so that might be why he "spawned" in such a high-magicule area, or perhaps his Great Sage skill was already operating in auto-pilot-mode during "world transit", bringing him safely though whatever wormhole he was being dragged through and perhaps even leading him into a destination that was most adventagous to him? There is much room for speculation here, unlike the case of Naomi Misora, where it was certainly a coincidence. You are blaming Tensei Slime for not immidietly showing the repercussions of the flaws I listed within 4 episodes, but appearently were patient enough for Death Note to air over 30 episodes before Light's "downfall" happens? It's almost like you use a different standard for each series. Regarding your so-called rebuttals against the flaws I listed: 1. Do the very inaccurate analogies include being completely defenseless, blind and unable to communicate for three days straight? No? Oh, so they are just unable to use flashy techniques but can otherwise still move, talk and to a limited extent even defend themselves, though greatly weakened. I am pretty sure they don't fall asleep or lose conciousness for three days straight. Rimuru's careless nature makes him a man of action, but at the same time he makes slip ups that cause him to be out of commission for three days, or mistakes that cause him to be detained by local authorities. Until now it has been mostly played for laughs, but, again, it's only episode 4. By your standards it's OK if nothing too big happens until episodes 30-something, right? Well the first season only has 24 episodes, so I guess your tolerance would be halfway into a hypothetical season 2, I guess? 2. Not an obstacle? He just told monsters that seem to treat his words like some kinds of religious texts or some kind of creed, that they should "not attack humans" and he didn't bother even mentioning anything regarding self-defense. What could possibly go wrong? And Rimuru doesn't even fall under your definition of Mary Sue/Gary Stu. Let's look at all the "problems" he had encountered so far: 1. Get a girlfriend (previous life) -> failed, and died a virgin 2. Save Tamura (previous life) -> succeeded, but at cost of own life 3. Free Veldora -> failed, did a makeshift measure of taking Veldora along with his prison, but essentially postponing the core of the problem 4. Escape the Cave -> succeeded, after over about a month since meeting Veldora, while fighting and absorbing various monsters 5. Heal Goblins -> succeeded, thanks to potions 6. Save Goblins from Direwolves -> succeeded, and got Direwolves as a bonus, because Rimuru was just much stronger and better prepared than the wolves 7. Get Food, Clothing and Shelter -> one success, two failures. Got enough food, but Rimuru and subordinates all lack the skill for clothing and shelter production, so Rimuru does the most sensible thing and looks for a specialist on the matter 8. Enter Dwargon without attracting attention -> failed 9. Obtain trust of guard captain by helping out to make up for failure in "7." -> succeeded by offering potions 10. Obtain support of Blacksmith -> succeeded by using Magic Ore, as well as the abilities of Predator and Great Sage As you see he has plenty bumps on the road. He does not appear perfect at all if you look at it properly. |
Grey-ZoneOct 26, 2018 10:27 AM
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Congintive said: I like everything about it. As for the dislike, it's that Rimuru can't fuck anyone I mean he didn't even have a dong and he looks like a girl. The only good comment here. So many sexy elfs and he can't get laid :"( The elitist crybabies with wall of texts are hilarious lmao |
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Newtwu said: Grey-Zone said: You seem to deliberately ignore the fact that Light literally ran into Misora Naomi at the one EXACT moment where he can hear her saying something that relates her to the Kira case. Had he come half a minute earlier or later he wouldn't have noticed at all. In comparison, Aizawa went past the both of them right when they were talking about the Kira case and it just so happened to start snowing making him lift up a parasol which prevented him from recognising Light. But sure "not convenient at all". Light and L are both Gary Stues, but their respective Gary Stu-ness negates each other, but if it's anyone without that characteristic, they are just "fodder". Light encounter with Misora Naomi only happened because of pure luck. L unknowingly saved himself from being killed by Rem by making his death recognised as "prolonging Misa's lifespan", which it wasn't up until then. Mellow had a Shinigami helper that conveniently appears right after Light's group gave him the Death Note as ransom, otherwise his story arc would have ended much earlier and we wouldn't get to see Light's father's dramatic end (= plot convenience). Near got the final win because two other Gary Stues made a noble sacrifice that enabled him to finally pierce through Light's protagonist plot armor, alongside a little bit of help from Mikami's plot-induced stupidity, even though the single smart thing Near ever really did by himself was throwing money from a helicopter. I could continue this forever. As for Rimuru, him "spawning" where he did is akin to being born in a certain way. Might as well critisize any protagonist ever to be born as either a muscle head (shounen protagonist) or super intelligent (Light or Lelouch) or with different circumstances. It's pretty much part of the setting, or at least a dramatic change that often occurs in the very beginning of the story. Such ciriticism is non-sense. On top of that Rimuru seemed to have a relatively strong soul, considering Veldora said that normal souls wouldn't be able to cross worlds by themselves, so that might be why he "spawned" in such a high-magicule area, or perhaps his Great Sage skill was already operating in auto-pilot-mode during "world transit", bringing him safely though whatever wormhole he was being dragged through and perhaps even leading him into a destination that was most adventagous to him? There is much room for speculation here, unlike the case of Naomi Misora, where it was certainly a coincidence. You are blaming Tensei Slime for not immidietly showing the repercussions of the flaws I listed within 4 episodes, but appearently were patient enough for Death Note to air over 30 episodes before Light's "downfall" happens? It's almost like you use a different standard for each series. Regarding your so-called rebuttals against the flaws I listed: 1. Do the very inaccurate analogies include being completely defenseless, blind and unable to communicate for three days straight? No? Oh, so they are just unable to use flashy techniques but can otherwise still move, talk and to a limited extent even defend themselves, though greatly weakened. I am pretty sure they don't fall asleep or lose conciousness for three days straight. Rimuru's careless nature makes him a man of action, but at the same time he makes slip ups that cause him to be out of commission for three days, or mistakes that cause him to be detained by local authorities. Until now it has been mostly played for laughs, but, again, it's only episode 4. By your standards it's OK if nothing too big happens until episodes 30-something, right? Well the first season only has 24 episodes, so I guess your tolerance would be halfway into a hypothetical season 2, I guess? 2. Not an obstacle? He just told monsters that seem to treat his words like some kinds of religious texts or some kind of creed, that they should "not attack humans" and he didn't bother even mentioning anything regarding self-defense. What could possibly go wrong? And Rimuru doesn't even fall under your definition of Mary Sue/Gary Stu. Let's look at all the "problems" he had encountered so far: 1. Get a girlfriend (previous life) -> failed, and died a virgin 2. Save Tamura (previous life) -> succeeded, but at cost of own life 3. Free Veldora -> failed, did a makeshift measure of taking Veldora along with his prison, but essentially postponing the core of the problem 4. Escape the Cave -> succeeded, after over about a month since meeting Veldora, while fighting and absorbing various monsters 5. Heal Goblins -> succeeded, thanks to potions 6. Save Goblins from Direwolves -> succeeded, and got Direwolves as a bonus, because Rimuru was just much stronger and better prepared than the wolves 7. Get Food, Clothing and Shelter -> one success, two failures. Got enough food, but Rimuru and subordinates all lack the skill for clothing and shelter production, so Rimuru does the most sensible thing and looks for a specialist on the matter 8. Enter Dwargon without attracting attention -> failed 9. Obtain trust of guard captain by helping out to make up for failure in "7." -> succeeded by offering potions 10. Obtain support of Blacksmith -> succeeded by using Magic Ore, as well as the abilities of Predator and Great Sage As you see he has plenty bumps on the road. He does not appear perfect at all if you look at it properly. Hmm, and what do you want me to say? That coincidences can't happen in stories? It's when coincidences and probability of these things happening break the suspension of disbelief, that it really becomes a problem. So like I said clearly beforehand, if you think Light and L are Gary Stus then you clearly don't know what you're talking about. They're nowhere close to Gary Stus. Respective Gary Stu-ness negates each other? What? You realise that Gary Stus refer to the main protagonist right? I've already mentioned what Light and L's flaws are and if you think every single thing that happened in the story was because of pure luck, then you are dead wrong. Rem was willing to kill herself to prolong Misa's life. It's how she died. L saved himself from getting killed because if Rem killed Misa, then they would know that Misa is Kira and immediately execute her. No, I'm criticizing Rimuru for being a Mary Sue. The fact that he gets OP powers, the fact that he spawns in a place that conveniently allows him absorb all potion herbs, conveniently allows him to increase his mana to absurd amounts, conveniently gets new abilities because he encounters new problems, conveniently gets revered by basically everything around him the moment he shows up. Regarding your critcizing of other work's protaganists; is Deku a Gary Stu? No. Is Lelouch a Gary Stu? Also no. Light? No. Saiki K.? Also no. Is Touma or Misaka or Accelerator a Mary Stu? No. There is no speculation on why he got these powers, it's just a way for Rimuru to become OP easily. To be become wish-fufillment. I'm blaming Tensei Slime for being shit writing, and it is. There are no hints of tension that are built because the character is a Mary Sue, he's able to solve any problem that comes his way. Regarding your so-called rebuttals: 1. Does the fact that mana running out for him actually attribute to any meaningful problems for him, even in the Light Novels? He also knows that he can't name spam anymore. But naming one person already uses a shit ton of mana. This scene was just to show how fucking large his mana pool is, nothing else, nothing more. It's almost like Megumin except she actually has a crap ton of flaws. 2. Nothing really will go wrong will it? Especially if Rimuru's there. Oh Lord and Saviour Rimuru, save us so we can worship you even more. Get out of here with that shit XD. And now regarding your obstacles: 1 and 2. These are just part of introduction and don't really contribute anything meaningful to the actual plot after he gets reincarnated other than the fact that he's really horny. Suprinsingly though, him getting stabbed does create more tension than anything else so far in the anime. 3. He "befriended" like the strongest being in the whole world and became part of his family. I wonder how this could help him in the future. 4. Escape this extremely convenient cave filled with everything he needs to become OP. 5. Goblins need healing, oh wait, I just happened to absorb all the herbs needed to create potions. Here, have these potions. Now I'm revered and worshiped. 6. Save Goblins from direwolves but also get the direwolves to worship and revere him. 7. And to do this he goes to the Dwarf town where 8. Fails to enter without attracting attention by showing how fucking strong and OP he is compared to adventurers 9. To which the guards need healing potions and Rimuru's like here, and now gets revered by them and gets taken to the blacksmith and Gentlemen's Bar with elves 10. Where he encounters a blacksmith that has a major problem where if he doesn't produce weapons in 5 days, he gets his certification removed and Rimuru just so happens to be the guy to be able to fix the problem cause boom, conveniently copies this weapon and gets revered by the blacksmith. Wow these problems sure are difficult for Rimuru. Really does prevent him from getting his goals. The amount of tension and conflict they create. Jesus. It's almost like this show can't create meaningful conflict and tension because it's got a Gary Stu. It's fine for you to like and enjoy it but for you to seriously say that it's good story-writing, compared to Death Note and call BOTH the protagonist and antagonist a Gary Stu. Dude, no one's going to take you seriously. Did you just seriously use your "prediction of future events" as proof? Really? THAT's how you are going to argue? "I feel like Rimuru never will never have any challenges, therefore he is a Gary Stu". THAT is your argument? That's the most irrational thing I have read on this forum lately. I guess my argument about the ridiculousness of comparing 30-something episodes of Death Note with the currently available 4 episodes of Tensei Slime must have really gotten you riled up, so you literally had "fill in the blanks" with a scenario that's convenient for you, huh? And your idea that being a Mary Sue/Gary Stu being limited to protagonists is non-sense. There are plenty of series where the villain is one (at least up until the protagonist "powers up enough" or sometimes not even stopping at that, e.g. Maou from the VN G-Senjou no Maou, who never loses) or rival of the protagonist is one or those where both the protagonist and the antagonist are one (like Death Note). You are forcing the definition to fit your preferences, but that's not how it works. Mary Sue/Gary Stues simply refer to characters that are pretty much flawless (and any exception would have to be at least a big fat plot point to compensate) and can easily solve most problems without having to put much work into it. BTW, you make it sound like the only "good" setting would be one where the protagonist is either an "average" person or an "underdog" kind of person, where they have to start "low" and sloooooooooooowly and progressively get better while having to trip on every little stone on the way, else it's "bad writing". Except Death Note appearently, because being a "complete" person like Light from the start is good when you want it and bad when you don't want it, appearently. How many times did any non-genius enemies (e.g. anyone other than L, Near or Mellow) actually truly endanger him directly? Actually he was so good that other than his first mistake of killing Lind L. Tailor (which only another "genius class person" like himself could use to their advantage), most of his other problems were caused by his so-called "allies" like Misa, Rem and Mikami, though to be fair they also gave him opportunities to attack, which his genius rivals mostly shot down, but it's ridiculous that they did so sometimes by pure luck without being aware of it. L didn't have a slightest clue about Rem being about to kill him, but he just so happens to do something that prevents this, saving himself in the process. There is no doubt. The story of Death Note didn't treat the "geniuses" as simple more intelligent than other characters, but they were also granted enormous plot armor that protects them from anything other than other "geniuses". Rimuru starting off with a "gifted" position of being friends with one of the strongest beings of the world but being unable to directly access that power is bad, while Light "being born as a genius" and conveniently "being the son of the police chief that happens to lead the investigation against himself" is good, huh? And now you change the definition of Gary Stu back from "instantly solving problems" to "someone who creates no tension for the viewer" and "someone who is worshipped by his/her surroundings"? What's with you, decide which it is you are using, already! Which of us here is really the "someone who cannot be taken seriously"? The ones who "worship" Rimuru are monsters, who, according to Veldora, tend live in a "survival of the fittest" world. Weak monsters who have the opportunity to be under the protection of a strong - and comparitively intelligent - being like Rimuru, would obviously choose to follow him and butter him up in such an environment. The ones who are ambitiously power hungry exist, as we saw with Papa-wolf, but he got beheaded. Everything makes sense within the established setting. There are no "plot holes" here. Since this is primarily a village/town-building story, having Rimuru to go through a Naruto-level long story to slowly become "hokage" we would have to wait for years until the story gets there, so yes, it's a bit faster paced and has a protagonist that starts off stronger than other stories, but that's still pretty much the early part of the story. Actually we are at episode 4 and the story is still in the middle of LN volume 1, so the adaptation is much more slow-paced than usual for LN adaptations. If it was the Overlord pace, then this series would have reached this point in the story part-way into episode 3. So make no mistake: This is still the "introduction" part of the story. If you want to talk tension, then fine let's do this: Many people both on this thread but also on youtube and other platforms have been expressing this show as feeling like being only five minutes long and being disappointed about one thing: That the episode is already over. Only a show with "tension" or whatever you want to call it can make people crave for wanting to see what happens next. If you personally don't feel that, it simply means that perhaps you aren't part of the target audience. It's as simple as that. Just because you personally don't like this kind of tension and don't want to acknowledge it for whatever reason, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Else this wouldn't be a top-seller compared to tons of actual "wish-fulfillment" stories filled with no original thoughts after the early part and overusing old outdated shitty tropes, like isekai smartphone which fell flat commercially. Not to mention that unlike most other series this series is already a top-seller across multiple platforms (both LN and manga) BEFORE even getting an anime adaptation. Heck, even the Web Novel version, which was the origin of the whole franchise, was one of the top 3 WNs on the site when it was still being publiced as such, so every single instance of this series up until now has been successful. Now even 8-bit, who gave people a pause as being as studio that would "most likely butcher this adaptation" have been taking this series uncharacteristicly seriously and show production values far beyond their usual norm. Let that sink in for a bit. |
Grey-ZoneOct 26, 2018 3:11 PM
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Newtwu said: Grey-Zone said: Did you just seriously use your "prediction of future events" as proof? Really? THAT's how you are going to argue? "I feel like Rimuru never will never have any challenges, therefore he is a Gary Stu". THAT is your argument? That's the most irrational thing I have read on this forum lately. I guess my argument about the ridiculousness of comparing 30-something episodes of Death Note with the currently available 4 episodes of Tensei Slime must have really gotten you riled up, so you literally had "fill in the blanks" with a scenario that's convenient for you, huh? And your idea that being a Mary Sue/Gary Stu being limited to protagonists is non-sense. There are plenty of series where the villain is one (at least up until the protagonist "powers up enough" or sometimes not even stopping at that, e.g. Maou from the VN G-Senjou no Maou, who never loses) or rival of the protagonist is one or those where both the protagonist and the antagonist are one (like Death Note). You are forcing the definition to fit your preferences, but that's not how it works. Mary Sue/Gary Stues simply refer to characters that are pretty much flawless (and any exception would have to be at least a big fat plot point to compensate) and can easily solve most problems without having to put much work into it. BTW, you make it sound like the only "good" setting would be one where the protagonist is either an "average" person or an "underdog" kind of person, where they have to start "low" and sloooooooooooowly and progressively get better while having to trip on every little stone on the way, else it's "bad writing". Except Death Note appearently, because being a "complete" person like Light from the start is good when you want it and bad when you don't want it, appearently. How many times did any non-genius enemies (e.g. anyone other than L, Near or Mellow) actually truly endanger him directly? Actually he was so good that other than his first mistake of killing Lind L. Tailor (which only another "genius class person" like himself could use to their advantage), most of his other problems were caused by his so-called "allies" like Misa, Rem and Mikami, though to be fair they also gave him opportunities to attack, which his genius rivals mostly shot down, but it's ridiculous that they did so sometimes by pure luck without being aware of it. L didn't have a slightest clue Rimuru starting off with a "gifted" position of being friends with one of the strongest beings of the world but being unable to directly access that power is bad, while Light "being born as a genius" and conveniently "being the son of the police chief that happens to lead the investigation against himself" is good, huh? And now you change the definition of Gary Stu back from "easily solving problems" to "someone who creates no tension for the viewer"? What's with you, decide which it is you are using, already! Speaking of "someone who cannot be taken seriously"... If you want to talk tension, then fine let's do this: Many people both on this thread but also on youtube and other platforms have been expressing this show as feeling like being only five minutes long and being disappointed about one thing: That the episode is already over. Only a show with "tension" or whatever you want to call it can make people crave for wanting to see what happens next. If you personally don't feel that simply means that perhaps you aren't part of the target audience. It's as simple as that. Just because you personally don't like this kind of tension and don't want to acknowledge it for whatever reason, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Else this wouldn't be a top-seller compared to tons of actual "wish-fulfillment" stories filled with no original thoughts after the early part and overusing old outdated shitty tropes, like isekai smartphone which fell flat commercially. I'm sorry when did I use prediction of future events as a proof at all? Is it not true that all the problems that the side characters have shown, he's been able to fix it no problem? An antagonist is able to be overpowered and perfect as fuck because the Main Protagonist is supposed to overcome them, they are a massive obstacles for the MC to overcome thus creating tension. If not then, a "Karma Houdini" situation occurs. Though to be fair, villains with no flaws and are villains because they are evil is pretty shit writing as well. Anyways, the main point is that, the story isn't centred on the villain, it's about the main character. The main character has conflicts to overcome. AND AGAIN, LIGHT AND L ARE NOT GARY STUS. Get it in your head. A Mary Sue's BASIC definition refers to a perfect character that are pretty much flawless. They're infallible, idealized and the centre of attention. And no, the protagonist doesn't have to be an average person or an underdog to not be a Mary Sue. Is Light a Mary Sue? No. Is Lelouch? No. Is Accelerator or Misaka? No. Is Kiritsugu Emiya? No. Saiki? Also no. I don't know why you keep insisting Light to be a Mary Sue when he's not and has a multitude of flaws are relevant to the plot. A lack of tension results from the use of a Mary Sue. It's not the definition of a Mary Sue. As explained in my previous posts, a story requires the following: Introduction, Escalation, Climax, Fall and Resolution. The escalation requires conflict and tension. It builds up to the climax. A Mary Sue can't do that because all problems that come their way are easily solved. Capiche? Because a power fantasy is essentially dumb fun and wish fulfillment. Why do you play an RPG? Because you want to role-play as this character that is able to go do these quests and use these abilities. Why do people enjoy watching SAO? Because it's dumb fun and in their minds Kirito is cool and they want to be like Kirito. But the thing with dumb fun is that it can only last for so long before it becomes boring. Seeing the MC completely overwhelm the enemy each time becomes boring. Seeing the MC fix any problems he comes across with no repercussions gets boring. It's not that I don't enjoy these sort of dumb fun shows. I do. But I recognise when a show is just a poorly written show for dumb fun and when it's not. It's not that I don't like shows having not a great deal of tension. I really enjoy slice of lifes. There is no meaningful tension whatesover in this anime. Being a top-seller doesn't mean jack shit in the light-novel world. Just look at SAO in that matter. SAO is also a power fantasy with a Mary Sue, pre-Alicization and also a top seller. Oh, but you just did! You literally made an assumption about the Light Novel, which, as far as I am aware, you have not read. The rest of your post is reiterating writing norms which usually only apply in the MAIN PART of the story, which this story has, as I mentioned before, not reached yet. It's still in its set-up phase, because unlike other shitty adaptations, this series takes it's time to introduce the lore of this new world and on top of that this series is extremely slow-paced by itself already. It's the equivalent of critisizing Death Note for Light not getting any problems in episode 1. Tensei Slime is simply slower paced and takes its time with everything, including the main antagonist. Heck the main antagonist in this story is actually smart enough not to carelessly reveal themselves, unlike the plot-induced stupidity of most antagonists who make their villainess a big flashy point and turn everyone against themselves for no good reason. While the main antagonist probably makes an appearence within this season, their identity won't be revealed until at least season 2, but up until then we will have other antagonists who could easily crush Rimuru if they actually saw him as a threat at this point. With that said, your arguments always amount to "muh Mary Sue wish-fulfillment!" Your are literally dumbing down everything on a single variable and treat the slow introduction phase as being the main story already. It's what we usually call a "Thought Terminating Cliché". If you consider something "wish-fulfillment" you immidietly stop all your thoughts and categorily dismiss the entire show as having everything bad you'd expect without even having seen all that much of it. You clearly give a difference of treatment between shows you give generalizing labels and those which you give a "fair chance". Also you didn't answer my earlier question: How is Light being born super-smart and as the son of the guy who is his own main investigator while also being the one person of the era that chances upon the Death Note, totally OK for you as a setting, but Rimuru starting off with being born right next to Veldora (and getting "Cheats skills" like everyone else that goes to that other world, a properly established law of that world) somehow being not OK? You didn't actually explain anything. The only difference is that Rimuru has memories of a previous life. Otherwise Light's circumstances actually seem, relatively to the respective world they live in, more convenient than what Rimuru gets. And what the heck in the world is "dumb fun"? What is "dumb fun" as opposed to "smart fun"? |
Grey-ZoneOct 26, 2018 4:16 PM
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| Dropped at first episode so you can guess whether I like the series or not. I'm an isekai hater but can't stop myself to coming back to these shows hoping I can get another Re:Zero. Still no luck :( Quoted myself what I don't like about it from episode 1 discussion: Renkini said: It's funny how the author contradicts himself by making the protagonist a slime, a supposed-to-be weakest monster in JRPGs yet buff him left and right to be OP. It defeats the purpose of making him a slime. It's just the bait to be unique among other isekai and follows the same format. I watched this first episode expecting the MC to be a literal piece of slime (pun intended) but looks like our slime can even turn himself into a guy (girl?) judging from opening. There's nothing left to expect now. |
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| Funny, people are calling Rimuru a Mary Sue.... They seem to have not watched the very first episode. He was spawned inside a cave. Where he first had to learn how to live. And then he learned how to survive. He wasnt in the cave and was out the same day. He was in there for months and had to fight other creatures and trained his skills and learned how to use them. So far he has done nothing that would qualify him as a mary sue. What i dislike about this anime? The Opening song is absolute Garbage (even if the animation in it is nice!) |
| The only thing i didn’t like from this anime is they spoil too much information from the OP and ED. I get that you need to introduce the squad in the OP, but come on, you don’t need to spoil every important information and character motives. |
| I like the whole "building a goblin kingdom" stuff, don't like the typical isekai stuff. PS: Why is this so overrated, are only manga/light novel fans watching? |
Newtwu said: Briandias said: Say Between rimuru and veldora who do you think is stronger Doesn't matter, because like all side characters, Veldora also revolves around the main character. He's part of Rimuru's family which basically means that Rimuru also has one of the strongest characters in the setting, as his ally. While it's never outright confirmed, there's probably a proper, in-universe explanation for why things "revolve around Rimuru" and why things go so conveniently for him according to the WN. More precisely it's two reasons. The anime version actually already very subtly hinted at one of these reasons and the other should be hinted at very subtly in the next episode. If any of these two "reasons" was missing, "Slime A" would probably be dead in some random ditch somewhere. |
Grey-ZoneNov 14, 2018 6:05 AM
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| Let me butt in. First of all rimuru's spawning in that particular cave isn't just 'convenience', there is solid reasoning behind it, namely Secondly there is indeed 'Mary Sue' in this show, but it's definitely not Rimuru. Major spoilers ahead |
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| The Slime Rimuru's god awful voice is my main issue with this anime. The "Great Sage" voice also grates my ears. The anime so far is moving kinda slow, so if it's only 12 total eps I think it was a waste of my time. Hopefully it's a couple seasons because 12 ain't gonna cut it for me with this type of slow anime. The anime is extremely light on ecchi crap so I'm happy so far. Seeing an enemy's reaction to a puny slime destroying them or eating them is very entertaining for me. Ains is great too, but in his different overpowering terrifying awesome way. Slime is more humorous. Ains is more serious, but he can still be humorous, although only in the side lines. Ains is scary as fk, slime is cute and wimpy looking. I like them both. |
Raven_Wingz said: The Slime Rimuru's god awful voice is my main issue with this anime. The "Great Sage" voice also grates my ears. The anime so far is moving kinda slow, so if it's only 12 total eps I think it was a waste of my time. Hopefully it's a couple seasons because 12 ain't gonna cut it for me with this type of slow anime. The anime is extremely light on ecchi crap so I'm happy so far. Seeing an enemy's reaction to a puny slime destroying them or eating them is very entertaining for me. Ains is great too, but in his different overpowering terrifying awesome way. Slime is more humorous. Ains is more serious, but he can still be humorous, although only in the side lines. Ains is scary as fk, slime is cute and wimpy looking. I like them both. This season of Slime is confirmed to be 24 episodes long. |
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